Yeah, if you put in an age older than 81, it just says how much over that limit they are living. It would be more impactful to see a tiny number of visits remaining.
Yes, I came here to say the same thing. They tried to correct for it by stating how far past life expectancy they are if you enter an age older that life expectancy at birth, but if you enter, say, one year less than life expectancy, you get an estimate of one year's worth of visits, which is not correct (or even close, really).
Effective site, but I hope the people who found it depressing reconsider their response.
The site didn't tell you anything you didn't already know, it only clarified it.
Instead of denying information to keep yourself happy, why not use the information? My 69-year-old mother remarked earlier this year that if she didn't get around to some of her life goals soon she wouldn't be able to.
Did she say that out of depression? No, to live the life she wanted even more. She celebrated her 70th birthday bicycle-touring a wine region in France with my step-father, riding something like one hundred kilometers a day.
We can all do the same in our ways. In my opinion, awareness trumps denial.
"Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart." - Steve Jobs
I built this to remind myself - http://liveconsciously.me/
You can see the home where I grew up in your site’s photo. I freaked out for a second, thinking it might be some kind of message from above. Or some crazy breach of my privacy. I guess it’s just a freaky coincidence! Wow.
Speaking of freaky coincidence: I went to this site, and it asked me my date of birth, before telling me how long I had left to pursue my dreams, on what happened to be my first experience on my 40th birthday.
It's strange to me how some people seem to obsess so much over retirement. Is your intertemporal discount rate negative (i.e. do you value a dollar 50 years more than you value a dollar today)? That's awfully counterintuitive if you do. There is a risk that the utility will drop to zero if you die before then, and even if it doesn't there is every reason to believe that you will be able to wring more enjoyment out of it today then at a time when you are very likely to be physically and mentally diminished.
I had to upvote this as this is something I've been saying for years. The amount of things a college grad can do with a million dollars is vastly bigger than the choice an octogenarian has. A dollar simply doesn't have the same value to a young person and an old person. The potential of what you can do with your money greatly diminishes as you age and at some point money even becomes a non-factor. When you're pissing your diapers in an old people's home, what good is your retirement money?
I am not advocating recklessness with personal savings, but at a certain age you pass the point where you can reasonably enjoy money.
> When you're pissing your diapers in an old people's home, what good is your retirement money?
As I've understood, the point is to blow all your retirement money between the age of 65(standard retirement age), and as you so eloquently put it, the age when you are pissing yourself in an old folks home. With a little luck, you've got about 30 years there.
You are assuming that as your age increases you eventually become more and more debilitated. Although this has been true for all of human history, it's not unreasonable to think that this might change during our lifetime. See SENS:
People associate frailty with age, but it doesn't have to be that way. If we can fix or clean up the underlying processes that cause aging, being 90 years old will be a very different experience.
If you're in the US, that money is always for keeping you off the street, at any age. It's funny you mention retirement homes. Those cost more than my current lifestyle does. Medicaid, you say? Ok, but first you need money for a lawyer to help you get on Medicaid, because the state will seek to deny you no matter your situation, as a matter of policy. We've been going through this pathetically broken process with my grandfather for a year. Just in case any young people out there are under the impression that 'the system' just sort of kicks in and takes care of things at a certain age, it doesn't. So you don't save for retirement so you can go jet-skiing in the tropics at 90. You save so you don't end up stuck, suffering alone for years in bad conditions, because you can't afford a roof and humane care.
I think that's exactly what a lot of people are missing. They forget that the US has very little in the way of social assistance. It seems nerve wracking to live there. I save because I like to have the peace of mind but I know that if I need it there will be assistance.
It's not that much different than squirrels saving nuts for the winter. Saving for the future is wise.
More to your point though, I think retirement dreams have been born out of blue-collar type work. People physically cannot do most types of blue-collar work when they reach the "golden years". Consider how you can enjoy your life now and how you can position yourself to have an income when you are not as nimble and healthy as you are now.
If you save a dollar, you can always spend it (plus interest) later. If you spend that dollar now, you lose the option to spend it on something you would have ended up valuing more later.
Another thing you can do right now is to start asking your parents about their life. It's one of those things you never take the time to do, and then one day it's too late.
If you live close to your parents, do it in person the next time you see them (and bring a voice recorder, your grand-kids will thank you some day). If you live far away, I built a service that makes it easy to do over email (http://www.storyworth.com).
My great grandma died at the age of 94. My grandma said last year in her late 70s "I wish my mom was alive, there are so many things I want to ask her" then started to name the things she wanted to ask her which included "Why didn't she smile in her wedding photo," a photo which has been on the mantle for at least the last 30 years.
This is really a pillar of the stoic philosophy, or at least as far as I interpreted it.
The awareness you speak of is quite freeing and empowering when you take the time to consider it. The appreciation you gain based on a stoic style of living can be quite freeing for people. It isn't just about using the information though as you mention, it is about being aware of it. Whether you act on it or not, you can gain some peace.
This site seems to put forward that idea, that knowing about it will in turn provide you with more appreciation and a better way of coping with the death as well.
I admit at first I thought it was depressing. But I quickly realized the opportunity to make the most of it. My parents are 80. Skype should sponsor this site.
I don't want to nitpick but 100 kilometers a day for a 70 year old, sounds pretty impossible...thats about 7 hours of non stop riding every day at a modest speed, even a fit college student won't be able to bike for 7 hours straight.
Edit: I do agree that a fit student can do a 7 hour bike tour, but i still staand by my opinion that for 70 year old it seems to be impossible.
A 60 mile ride on flat roads at a leisurely pace of 12mph would take about 5 hours. College cyclists ride at 20-25 mph. Pros ride at 30+. On my weekend rides were I average 19mph on the flats I regularly get passed by some very old riders. The point is: 100km a day is a difficult but achievable goal for a reasonably fit 70 year old.
I am 52, and I do 27 miles each Saturday on a longboard. It takes around 2:20 to do it. When I am 70 I may not be on the longboard for those distances, but no problem on abike i'd bet.
Get involved in cycling communities and you realise that this, while not particularly easy, is not particularly hard either. Especially for spryer-than-average 70-year-old.
An average unfit person of almost any age, can, within a couple of weeks of regular riding, achieve 100 km in a day.
Woooh. An unfit 55 - 70 year old isn't going to do 100km's after a couple of weeks. They'll blister and cramp out at a minimum even if it's really flat terrain. However, they could get there in a couple of months with the right training/dedication.
I've known people in a bicycle club in their 70s who ride 100 mile rides a time or two a year. This being an antique bicycle club, that's 100 miles on an antique high wheeled bicycle. Fixed gear, and quite heavy.
Outliers for sure, but those are just those who I personally know. My own parents, 71 for him and 68 (with an artificial knee) for her, will be touring Hungary next year. I don't think it'll be 100K per day, but it should be a healthy daily distance.
100k a day is.. routine, not even challenging for anyone who cycles regularly. They say cycling is a sport where you can peak around 50. The guys I cycle with are all well over 50 and some of them can seriously outpace me (I'm 31)
I am sometimes overtaken at sportives by very old brown skinned skinny men on bikes. I'd say one of those guys would be able to do 200k a day np. (last sportive I did was 190k with 4 category 1 climbs in one day)
"They say cycling is a sport where you can peak around 50" - I doubt there is any sport with a significant physical component (i.e. not golf) where you can peak at 50.
My parents ride with a group some of whom are in their mid 60s, and have no problem doing 100-150km/day. They are outliers, but it's by no means impossible.
The worst part about a random person riding for 7 hours straight is being unused to sitting on a bike for that long. If you ride all the time it gets much easier.
I (32, not in good shape at all) started biking last year for the first time in years and was able to do 60 miles (100km) my second time out. with hills. It's about 5 hours at a very slow pace, but we did it in 3 1/2. My father (72) rides regularly with a large group of older bikers and does 150km twice a season, but 80-100km every weekend. My mother-in-law (60) recently got back from her second cross-country bike tour where she did 130km 6 days a week for a month.
Its really not that crazy. Its probably 5-6 hrs at a modest speed. Doable if you break it up. If its not too crazy hilly you just need some reasonable fitness and a conditioned rear end.
Similar to other comments, my father (68), rides to and from work which is 30km+, then for fun, will also include another 2-3 hour ride after work. My understanding is eventually you get into the zone, 100km is easy work.
If we were talking 90, then I could see why 100km a day might seem hard. However for some, 70 can still be considered youthful.
I disagree about the college student thing. I didn't train at all and biked from DC to Pittsburgh, doing 80 miles a day about. It one of those things where you can push yourself a lot further than you think.
do you know many 70 year olds? My father-in-law runs 100 meter dashes with other old folks. He is 70 and can probably outrun me at 41 - and I exercise regularly.
Damn, my dad had a stroke on Saturday night. Thankfully he got very prompt and first class medical treatment (Thanks NHS. Socialised medicine FTW) so the damage is fortunately very limited. I'm actually on my way to the hospital to see him now.
This is a great reminder to pick up the phone and tell your folks or anyone that matters to you that you love them. Everyone reading this should do that now if they can. You never know when it will be too late and you don't want those regrets.
So true. My wife's dad passed away when she was in college. No one knows how long their parents will be around.
I'm very lucky, my dad is 83 years old and doing great. The past few times I've gone to visit my parents, I've made a conscious effort to ask them a lot of questions about their life, and it's been incredibly rewarding.
One thing led to another and now helping people record their family stories is what I do for a living (http://www.storyworth.com if you want to check it out).
Please understand I don't mean to discredit your site in any way and what I'm about to say below is no reflection in your commitment.
But this is a good opportunity for me to make an important point regards a discussion that took place here a few days ago.
You see - This website serves no purpose in the East or Eastern ethnic minorities.
It's not part of our culture to lose contact with our parents. I saw my parents on the weekend, my wife saw hers and we both spoke to our parents today on the phone. We live 3hrs away.
I'm 33 yrs old. I've never not spoken to my parents for more than 14 days ever in my life.
Why am I telling you this?
Because in the last discussion that took place - the rant about culture in India, many commented that people need to get more mature but what they dont realise that its culture holding them back
Let's not generalize too much. My wife is "Eastern", but only sees her parents on average once a year, because they live on separate continents. And since her dad is not in great shape physically, her count is probably down in the single digits.
Many South American / Mediterranean / Latin cultures also value family a lot (the U.S. has the stereotype of Italians: people of Spanish and Greek descent too).
I visit my family every single weekend. No exception. And that includes my uncles, cousins and grandparents when they were alive.
I guess that for our cultures, family is a very important part of our lives, a safety net, etc... The average American is very individualistic in comparison (it's not meant to be negative - the very same traits mean Americans are more self-reliant and adventurous)
Family is important to me, even extended family (cousins, uncles, aunts) but I don't have the luxury of being able to visit nearly as much as I would like. I live too far away from the lot of them and some more are spaced out all over the country anyways. Factors out of my control prevent me from living anywhere else in the world.
3 hours really isn't very far. I had Indian colleagues who would see their parents once or twice a year because they lived in different continents. In China they have passed a law that people need to look after their parents, presumably because people weren't doing so. I don't think you're seeing the picture with your one-size-fits-all East versus West cultural comparison.
I'm sure they've at least heard about, for example, cultures where three generations tend to live in the same household. But I guess you should always assume an American cultural bias when it comes to content from this site.
I was going to say.. the website says I'll see my parents close to 1300 times... however, I believe that unless I make drastic life changes, my father will outlive me - I'm overweight and have heart risk and have a relatively low salary and long working hours, while he's extremely fit and lean and very well off, and only 18 years older than me.
I'm treating the money and job ones first, after that I'll tackle my weight (I did manage to lose 40 pounds a few years ago, but got them back compensating for the shitty job and money troubles).
Calorie & weight awareness. It's really the simple guaranteed key to keeping weight off and losing it. More than exercise, more than ketogenic diets and a billion bits of contradictory information, being aware of how many calories you eat is really the key to not being overweight.
You can lose weight even with really busy schedules under $10/day with a combination of liquid egg whites with salsa, carrot stick snacks and subway/chipolte for example. Just eat at the -1.5lbs/week calorie level to lose weight with a calorie calculator[1]. Remember to recalculate every 5lbs or so of weight loss.
Also record your weight at least weekly with something like myfitnesspal or a wifi weight scale (like the fitbit aria) to snip weight gain trends in the bud. I once gained 30 lbs over a period of 5 months without realizing it due to not tracking my weight, stress and my exGF getting into baking. %70 of americans are overweight, your not alone.
I'll second what mahyarm said about being aware of calories.
Download Myfitnesspal (or bookmark the website) and use it for one week.
I'll disagree with mahyarm about needing anything fancly like liquid egg whites. For most people substituting water for softdrinks will make a substantial difference to the calories. Carrot sticks do make a good snack though (they have a high satability index). Pears are also good if you prefer something sweeter.
It made me sad because it makes me realize I have no control over the fact that they are growing old.
Instead, what would be nice is if provided information such as: ask your father to go for a prostrate exam, ask your mother to run these other tests, and so on - based on the country, age and perhaps race data (which is not collected right now).
Makes me sad because I don't have much control over living in the same city as them.
I have a theory that much of the high rates of depression and unhappiness in the US can be attributed to the large size of the country combined with our mobility within it. Childhood friends always move far away, families separate, your schoolmates drift away. You need 2-5 hour flights to see anyone. Take for example a Brit or a German. The people you grow up with and your families might move to another city, but they are always just a reasonable train ride or drive away. It's quite isolating when you realize everyone you're close with is spread across a continent.
> Take for example a Brit or a German. The people you grow up with and your families might move to another city, but they are always just a reasonable train ride or drive away.
UK - I don't know anyone with friends in a different city who frequently sees the people they grew up with, (or their parents for that matter.)
"Take for example a Brit or a German. The people you grow up with and your families might move to another city, but they are always just a reasonable train ride or drive away."
Not that reasonable.
I'm a Brit, living in Scotland. Many, many of my friends live either 5-and-a-bit hours' train ride away (London) or 7-8 hours by train or car away (Bristol).
Contrast that with the distance between Southern California and Maine... a day-trip by land for you would be a multi-day monstrosity for an American. :(
I was contrasting with the parent comment, which was lamenting 2-5 hour flights - almost exactly the same travel time that I'll need to see my more distant friends.
I do agree that I wouldn't want to do a US-style road trip to visit people!
I'm going to Japan in 2 months, for 2 weeks, to see my wife's parents in Japan. (I live in Los Angeles.) They are getting up in years and their health is declining so this will probably be the last time we see her dad, and maybe her mom too. The trip will cost $6,000 minimum for the 3 of us to go. My father lives in Texas, and we went this spring. That cost $2,000. Next summer, we may go to France for a couple of weeks to see my mom and a bunch of other relatives. That will cost another $6,000, at least. So, at a minimum, we'll spend at least $14,000 in the space of 15 months to see relatives. Can't do that every year, or even every other year and hope to fund our retirement and my son's college fund.
I do, and domestic flights for 3 people cost that much, and that includes the car rental, gas, parking, baggage fees. Luckily I did not have to pay for a motel, and dining out three times a day or the trip to Texas would have cost more than $3K.
Why is it that when it comes to this issue people feel completely comfortable with telling other people how to live their lives?
Wanting to spend more time with your parent's isn't a moral absolute. It's a social pressure that has proved hardier than going to church or getting married while you are still fertile.
If one has a good relationship with their parents, then they are likely one of the closest bonds and strongest links in his/her social support system. Thus it makes biological sense to foster this connection. Humans have strong social needs, and generally don't do well if they are neglected.
“They didn’t understand me”, “I wish I had done this in the past”, “I wish I had someone to guide me towards my interest”,
“I hope I become successful in the future”, “I hope become a millionaire”
Our ambition, our regrets have made us distant from the now and the present. We are not satisfied with it, how can we? We have our own expectations and dreams to achieve in life. So we run from the present, we live like we have a millennia more. We believe that our parents will always be there when we have time.
So we don’t go meet them on holidays, we rarely talk to them over the phone. When we meet them we are obsessed with our future, never paying attention to their stories. Never really looking into their eyes. After all, Facebook and Twitter is way more interesting then old people’s talk.
And one day you will catch the train (success, fame, money or whatever it is) but you realise that there is no one on the other side, that you are all alone. It feels empty, it feels incomplete. That you have an entire life to go through now.
Don’t let that happen, go to their place. Talk to them over the phone (at least once a week). When you meet them, turn off your smartphone. Look at them in the eye and listen to their stories.
You will find out that they need you as much as you needed them in the past.
Life is not all about fame and achievements, it’s about the people (Family, friends, etc). And whatever insignificant time we have on this planet, it’s better spent together in the present.
This is a cool little website. Both my parents are dead, but I appreciate the thought behind it.
It's interesting that it sticks to a mother and father. A number of families are moving into more complex arrangements - 2 fathers, or 2 mothers, or step parents, or single parents, or etc etc. (I'm not complaining, just commenting.) I guess it shows that people know who they consider to be parents.
The situation may be horrible, in which case this site may be an unwelcome reminder of the horribleness of the situation. But this site doesn't make anything worse or tell you anything you didn't already know.
Some will never see their parents again. For some of us, even when we see our parents they are too far lost in dementia to realize it. Some will lose their parents tragically early. Some will get far more time with their parents than expected. Some will become their parents' or in-laws' primary caretakers and privately sometimes wish in their hearts of hearts they saw their parents less.
None of that changes the message of this site. We have a finite amount of time on this earth. We could do worse than to spend some of it with those we love.
We also live in an age of visas, rogue governments holding your (expir{ing|ed}) passport for ransom for stupid things like compulsory military service. Not everybody can change that part of the situation.
What is "(Holland, Europe)" doing behind "Netherlands"? Which, by the way, is The Netherlands. Why are we the only one with an incorrect postfix? Holland are two provinces where the government reside; it's like putting "Île-de-France" behind "France". Like all Frenchmen outside of that region, I don't identify as a citizen of Holland at all.
You could also do it twice. Once with both inputs as your dad's age and the average number of times you see your dad and the other for your mom, to get separate estimates for each.
I do have the same situation since a while (country of living, they didn't change their country of birth ;)). I could understand that not being included, as it is unusual. You cannot cover all with "simple".
The underlying point is that divorce is not unusual, but the norm in some countries.
I'm glad there's at least one person who doesn't immediately get all profound over the oft-trotted theme of 'spend time with the loved ones'. I'm also glad it isn't everyone; but I am glad there is one.
The rest of you: yes, it's also very nice that you're all nice, soft humans with good families.
This is great, regardless of whether the math is correct. I don’t share much on Facebook, but this, this I shared. It may seem sappy to some, but I find it to be a community service.
My situation: I’m 33 years old and I live in the same city as my parents do. My mom is 65 years old, my dad is 69 years old. I visit my parents about once a week.
According to this test, I can expect to see my parents another 700 times before they pass. That may look like a large number, for me it is sobering. My dad has heart problems (he had an angioplasty and a stent placed last year, some incidents after, and he had a pace maker installed this year). I’m not sure whether I get to see him another 700 times at the rate that I visit him now. I will certainly increase the rate of my visits.
I'm 32 and live in a different province from my family and I only see them for a week or so a year (this past year I got to see them three times :). Seeing 28.5 show up on there was painful.
I'm in the same situation, I live in San Francisco and my parents are in France. I see my parents a couple of times a year.
You might be interested in trying my service http://www.StoryWorth.com. It helps people record their family stories, and we often end up talking about my parents' stories during our weekly phone calls.
This assumes number_of_parents = 2. This also assumes class.parents() = {female_mother, male_father}. Maybe that's just a little too much heteronormativity for the year 2013?
A more generalized version that produces See Your Folks calculations for people by gender, age, and frequency of visit would be appreciated by folks like me that have complicated family dynamics. Hell, maybe I don't want to see my folks, maybe I just know how often I should see my friend that moved to the EU!
It would be nice if you could incorporate expectation of years of life left at given age instead of defaulting to state the years lived past their expected life. Does the WHO data have this? For example, see rightmost column here http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/Revised_Tables_2008.pdf .
First they make the wrong assumption that the most we see our parents the happier we are.
In any case, I don't think it makes a big difference for people to see their parents 500 or 700 times before they die. Especially if they don't get along with them, they should see each other as little as possible.
My parents died a while ago and while I miss them, I don't regret that i didn't see them enough.
Small bit of feedback, in case the devs are reading.
The site is needlessly vague about what it's going to show me. What are "my results", and will they be compelling enough for me to send personal information to somebody I don't know?
Coming to this site cold, with no expectations, I had no desire to enter my parents' ages, to tell you where they live, or to tell you how often I see them.
I am not sure I appreciate this kind of thing but it is interesting nevertheless. My folks have lived 4.5 years beyond the expected life expectancy for my country! By the way, the app needs to handle this case gracefully: I am a foreigner in the US so I see my folks less than once a year. I tried putting in 1/3 but looks like the lowest number it can handle is 1.
> I tried putting in 1/3 but looks like the lowest number it can handle is 1.
It also fails to handle the case where your parents don't live together and therefore you see them at different intervals, or are already dead. But obviously this is a throwaway thing and doesn't really merit overthinking.
One thing this does not take into account -- seeing your parents in person is not the only interaction that is meaningful. Yes, I agree that seeing them in person is a good thing to do, but for some people that is difficult to do, and very often it is not because of a lack of dilligence on the child's part.
So send your folks a long letter or email. Call them on the phone. There is no need to feel guilty because you can only see them X times a year -- for some that is just a fact of life. Phone calls, emails, letters all have meaning. Letters and emails can be read multiple times (and often are). You want to really show your parents you care? Write one or both of them a poem or a song. If you have no skill in that area, write a long heartfelt letter. I wrote one of those letters to my dad years ago and he kept it forever.
It is good to remember that life is short and to use your time wisely. Remember the things that are important. But personal visits aren't the only way to do something about it.
One of the great things about working remotely is the ability to spend time with folks. I moved out to SF to be where the sun shines but recently my father became ill. I'm now spending lots and lots of time in a small town in the Midwest sharing moments with my father, which is the most important thing to me at this moment.
I am happy that this sort of condition is relatively rare in India, from where I hail. Most of us stay with parents and share homes and love. In fact, staying away from parents never even occurred to me before I came in touch with the Western culture that derides staying with parents. At first it seemed rather selfish to me that kids abandon their parents, almost like what happens in the animal kingdom. But later I realized that it's a cultural thing. And there's no judgement passing on either.
The only sad thing is that in India, if you abandon your abusive parents, it's looked down upon. In the West, if you stay with your angel like parents it's still derided. Hope this changes both ways.
Realise it was thrown together in a day but didn't especially like 'the feels' I got from being told that I would see my Dad, who has already died, 572 more times before he passes on.
A reminder is good, but an entire website for this purpose alone - with data culled from the WHO? And four people to create it?? Is there any other purpose of the site other than to remind us that our aged parents are nearer to their graves? I tried to find the site pithy but it was equal parts depressing, simplistic and oddly cute. I looked around for other stuff to click on, but there was nothing. Am I missing something?
I love my parents, but the knowledge that I'll only see them another ninety times... there's only so much hearing them my mother talk about her life or watching my father sit in front of the TV that I can take.
I'd prefer to have 90 days of goodness than 300 days of meh, you know? There's only a certain amount of content you can share in a given relationship.
I didn't even dare to put my details in. I'm a constant worrier and have always had existential issues, so this website doesn't do me any good. We are all different.
I love websites like this, they are a constant reminder that you and those around you are not mortals. Others might also like www.aznoe.com its on the same lines as this...
Why is 0 not a valid input? I mean, I know it makes it somewhat pointless to even fill in if one never sees ones parents, but either way, 0 is a valid, if sad, answer.
If my parents are 80, I don't expect them to die in 1 year just because life expectancy at birth is 81. I expect them to live about another 8 years.
Use a table like http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html