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8.2 magnitude earthquake off Russia with potential to generate a tsunami (noaa.gov)
108 points by hgezim on May 24, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 56 comments



Being in Moscow, which is 6000+ km away from the epicentre of the earthquake, we still felt the tremors... Fascinating.


I am also in Moscow and I call bullshit on this.


I have experienced plenty of earthquakes where one person felt it quite strongly and another living nearby didn't.

How easy it is to feel varies depending on what floor you're on, how well constructed your building is, what kind of ground you're standing on, etc, etc, etc.

Furthermore at that distance the earthquake should be a slow roller, which means that someone who is focused on something might not notice while another person in the same room could notice, realize how much motion there is, and freak out. I've been there as well - as the person watching a movie who ignored an earthquake that everyone outside of the movie was quite aware of.

So the fact that you live in Moscow and didn't feel it is not grounds to call BS on someone else claiming that they felt it.


Why? I have heard (I mean, read) people reporting having felt slight tremors. Example ([ru]): http://nina-petrovna.livejournal.com/797021.html


I find this very hard to believe.


It's possible because of the depth.

http://rt.com/news/quake-asia-tsunami-warning-729


Similar situation involving meteorites:

"I would sooner believe that two Yankee professors would lie than that stones would fall from heaven!" - Thomas Jefferson

The point being, whether we believe it or not changes nothing. This person experienced it.


That's just too smart of a point, I'm afraid I'm all smitten. Though a construction next door or a demolition few blocks down the road would've been a simpler explanation.


Yeah, that was a little glib. My point was, testimony is what it is; pointless to guess at their situation. Perfectly fair to do statistics on reports, if found in sufficient numbers.


Updated with more information, there won't be a tsunami (probably) http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/events/PAAQ/2013/05/24/mnafyn/2/W...


Supplementary data to your link in case of a change: historical tsunami travel times in hours: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/hazard/tsu_travel_time_events.shtml...

Most relevant: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/hazard/icons/1923_0203.jpg


How can a tsunami cross the Pacific in 10 hours? Isn't that as fast as an airliner? Of course I'm not questioning the maps, but isn't that shocking? How does it work?


Such a wave travels at well over 800 kilometres per hour (500 mph) -quoted from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsunami


It's not a wave that physically moves as a single mass of water across the ocean. It's a shockwave that propagates through the ocean.


It's not a shock wave, it's a shallow water wave (because the wavelength is much larger than the depth of the ocean). The speed depends on depth [v = sqrt(g*H)]; for typical deep Pacific (5000 m), that is ~220 m/s or 500 mph.


I don't think there are waves that move "as a single mass of water across the ocean." or through any other medium. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waves:

"The term wave is often intuitively understood as referring to a transport of spatial disturbances that are generally not accompanied by a motion of the medium occupying this space as a whole,"

For an analogy with (not quite an explanation, as the mechanisms are a bit different) a tsunami's speed, think of what happens when you pluck a guitar string. The back end of the string starts moving up before you even release the string. So, say you lift a string at, say 1cm/s for .1 of a second. (Almost) at the end of that 0.1s, the start of the wave that will form has reached the other end of the string, moving at meters per second (the 'almost' is because the string will deform. Ultimately, relativity has something to say here, too, but that only matters when the resulting wave signal would move near the speed of light)


Why is this still all-caps - in 2013? It's not like there are any teletype lines left that cannot process lower case.

Is this some kind of tradition or does NOAA still use EBCDIC mainframes?


These messages are always in caps to send faster over slower systems.

http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Computing/Capital_Letters....

I spent a decade as a communicator in the navy and radio teletype is still the primary method of communication at sea.


That makes sense.

However, I argue that the NOAA could serve their warnings on the web in all lowercase for the sake of readability. Then again, that could be a quick hack for someone.


NOAA / NWS advisories tend to have a lot of proper names. It looks really wacky if you just lower-case them (and it's non-trivial to convert them to proper capitalization automatically.)

(I tried to do this back in about 1999. I don't think it's gotten much easier, although having geo APIs might help somewhat.)

Also, apparently there's some international standards around this kind of info that require it to be upper case: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/10/blame-united-n...


* { text-transform: lowercase; }

If it bothers you so much. :)


Quick hack, maybe. But someone getting the time to do so is another issue. And these are old systems, you want them to do the work so you can read a tsunami warning that happens how often?


It's more readable in all caps, which is why they and the military do it this way. If it were all lowercase thing like Is and ls and 1s would get confused.


They deliver the information on a number of formatted pages. This is simply the source document.


Especially for submarines, to communicate underwater you need very low frequency radio and the bandwidth is correspondingly low. Sure they can surface and get satellite signals but that's not always practical depending on where they are and what their mission is.


You might be interested to know that Naval message traffic is now permitted to use lowercase letters in some instances (think shore-side). This is an extremely recent change but I think I've even seen it used already with a message released from SECNAV.


Interesting, thanks. I had no idea something like teletype was still operational, let alone in active use.


fwiw the tsunami warning systems (one each coast) in the usa are currently in the process of selecting and implementing a major upgrade (i am working on one of the bids in a very minor role[1]) so you can expect changes in the next few years (but i have no idea about this particular issue).

[1] which, incidentally, involved me sending thousands of SMS alerts to a co-worker yesterday evening as i ran through a replay of the chile earthquake, effectively DOSing[2] his phone. most entertainment i've had in months. beep. new magnitude estimate. beep. beep. beeeeep... :o)

[2] it's ok, it's only a demo, promise.


Here's a map and more info: http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/?p=PAAQ/2013/05/24/mnafyn/2/WEAK5...

Currently (6:51 UTC), no warnings.


Is a depth of 385 miles normal? That would put it deep in the earths mantle wouldnt it?


It's very deep - seems to have something to do with subduction, take a look at

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usb000h4jh#...

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadati%E2%80%93Benioff_zone

Looks like they can be felt very far but are less dangerous.


We felt a small earthquake in Davis, CA earlier tonight. Active day for our earth! I quite like earthly events like this — they really make one realize how minuscule we are.


I was in mountain view for the '89 loma prieta quake. The walls of our tilt-up on easy street we're waving like flags, and the huge Costco shelves in the shipping room collapsed, shattering a workers arm. I know that this is nothing like the horrors that other people in quakes have faced, but for years afterwards my flesh would crawl when a large truck would pass by. Then I moved to Oakland just in time for the '91 firestorm...


Only half of us felt it here in Sacramento, CA. It seriously just felt like someone slammed a door very hard.


I imagine NOAA and NWS bulletins are in all caps for compatibility with ancient systems, but I still have to wonder if they'll ever see a reason to start using lowercase letters.


My guess is it's for legibility on faxes, which go out over radio.

But it does seem like there might come a day when that tech is completely obsoleted.


We felt here in India, in Gurgaon, near Delhi.


Off topic: I am in Gurgaon too!


No tsunami warning for Japan as of writing:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/sokuho/tsunami/index.html


it's just past midnight here in socal. I live in Long Beach, CA - few miles from the pacific ocean. I'm closely watching http://ptwc.weather.gov/ . No warning as of this writing.


Is it crazy to think that there may be a pattern for all these strong earthquakes in the past few years since the Haiti one, and that they may be linked?


Could it be that the Haiti one was the first earthquake you started paying attention to?


It's the Pacific Ring of Fire, which includes Haiti, Japan, Chile, New Zealand, Solomon Islands and Indonesia (list goes on) which have had deadly quakes in the last few years - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Fire

*edit, not Haiti which has its own crazy deep-earth stuff going on in the area


The ring of fire doesn't seem to include Haiti: http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=36428

The Caribbean instead has it's own smaller "ring": http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0121/Haiti-eart...


I personally always get Haiti and Papua New Guinea confused in my head. I know they are very different, but for some reason I have to think for a few seconds when someone says Haiti.


>but for some reason

Because both islands are divided between 2 states each.


Is that it? I think its just a neural hash collision in my head that resulted from hearing about missions in both countries in catholic elementary school (they are both very poor, at least PNG and Haiti).


Do you mean a pattern of earthquakes being more common in highly earthquake prone areas? Yeah, that's expected.



There is an idea where strong earthquakes are linked to the end of large-scale nuclear tests.

Presumably nuclear tests helped tensions to resolve in small earthquakes and now they build up and release a devastating one.


I have read speculation about that too. I don't think it's crazy, but I don't think it's widely accepted as a significant correlation by seismologists either.


There was a 6.5 magnitude aftershock, near the site of the 8.2, this morning as well. Also just under 400 miles deep.


...but will it?



indeed, as this document indicates : "DUE TO THE DEPTH OF THE EARTHQUAKE NO TSUNAMI IS EXPECTED."

The Depth of the subterranean earthquake is generally a major factor in Tsunami (The main factor being the displacement of the water mass above).

The last two M9~ magnitude earthquakes causing deadly tsunamis (Indian Ocean 2004, Japan 2011) were only at a Depth of 30km (19mi). This one is very deep, at 619km (385mi) below the surface.


the NOAA "discussion" section used to be a really interesting read, wonder where that went...




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