I bought the last version and ran it for a while. The one huge red flag is that they have access to all your contacts and messages via their servers. You can't upload your contacts directly to the phone from a USB cable or import them from a loccal file. You have to go to their website and upload your contacts and then they push them to your phone. The way MMS works is that the messages gets relayed to their servers, which then email it to you. It's an absolute security and privacy disater. Which is really sad, because almost everything else about the phone is pretty good and it's filling a need in the market.
[edit to add] as others mentioned, no TOTP auth app was the other requirement missing
It’s all about durability. For example, that phone is not going to be up to the standard of an iPhone when it comes to water resistance. What’s better constantly being able to fix your own phone or never needing to fix your phone. It is a spectrum, but I think for environmental and most consumer reasons, one wants it to be more towards the later.
"Never" is a false hope when the average lifespan of a phone is something like 2.5 years.
The battery will fail, it's just a matter of time. The screen will become cracked. The charge port will become corroded or loose. Water intrusion will happen and be unrepairable because it's inaccessible and uncleanable, not because anything's been dissolved.
Yes, eventually the hardware will be inadequate to keep up with modern apps and websites, but I think we're to the point of diminishing returns on laptops and close to it on smartphones.
And yes, eventually the software will not be supported, but that's a problem of hardware churn and economics, not engineering and durability.
A short lifespan is largely because it's not repairable, not in spite of it being repairable.
Dropping the phone in water is a possibility, the battery becoming useless is a certainty. Repairability is important.
The Samsung S5 had a removable back with a silicone seal, this was one of the first widely available water resistant phones. I'm sure they could come up with an even better version now if they wanted to. Glueing it shut is not a requirement for water resistance.
Drop this plastic phone onto concrete, drop a glass iPhone onto concrete. Phone cases should not need to exist, nor be as ubiquitous as they are - they are band-aids on bad durability.
You could probably bend this thing easier than an iPhone, I don't know how much of a metal frame is in this one, but they could add one make it as sturdy. Screws do not preclude this.
It's not all about durability. Screws have a minimal impact on durability compared to materials. It's about a sleek design for sales, with the added benefit of planned obsolescence.
Shipping Jan 2025, normally $799 retail (does not include tax or shipping).
For a phone that's almost certainly running Android under the hood, not having the ability to install Signal or Messenger or anything else just makes it dead on arrival imho.
> install Signal or Messenger or anything else just makes it dead on arrival imho.
? , that’s literally the selling point, that you cant install those things in this phone duh. Besides, they know what they are doing, they sell pretty well too. They churn out enough of these each year, that foxconn handles their manufacturing for this unit. They must be selling decent numbers in that case.
I understand the appeal of minimalism but in reality most people use messaging applications. Cutting them off from their existing networks is not a viable plan in my opinion. The developers even recognise this in their FAQ, where after stating they don't support Signal or Messenger they say:
> The Light Phone II can also used as a complement to your existing smartphone, for taking a break and going light, either by swapping your SIM between devices, or by getting a second phone number for the Light Phone II.
How many people will pay 800 dollars for a less functional version of a product they already own?
Personally, my phone is just a tool to use WhatsApp/Signal. 95% of the people I contact via call or message, I do so via WhatsApp/Signal. The remaining 5% are banks or businesses.
I understand the appeal for a simple phone, but this one won't work for people like me.
This is tbh, not for people like you.
It’s for people who face severe smartphone addiction and social media and youtube usage, and cannot help themselves curb the habit of doom scrolling away their entire day on Phone.
The fact that you, already just use your phone for bare essentials and nothing else. Means, normal smartphones are the best for you. Think of this more like a re-hab pill for addicts :) , normal people dont take rehab meds. This is for people who are facing severe addiction.
I went through that phase several years ago, had to destroy my phone, and went without any phone for 6 months, relied on people to call me only via my computer over VoIP when i was on PC. Picked up a smartphone again once i was finally mentally free.
I think there are an enormous number of people who would differentiate between social media like Instagram and messaging apps like WhatsApp. It seems reasonable to me for a minimalism focused phone to still support messaging but not X, Insta, LinkedIn, Threads, etc.
> We’ve also added a camera, but… in our own way. Taking inspiration from our favorite point-and-shoot film cameras, it has a dedicated two-step shutter button, with center focus and a fixed focal length.
I'm most curious about this feature. It sounds like there's no preview of your photo? How do you get the pictures off the phone? Is the quality any good?
I love the ideals of this this company ("stop using your phone as a way to scratch every tiny itch of boredom and frustration") but I feel like I can get there with any ol' phone and an hour of deleting all the apps I don't actually want to be using. So much work has been put into modern smart phone cameras that it'd be undesirable for me to give that up.
Also, regular smartphones have a long tail of really useful edge cases: AirBnB checkin instructions, boarding pass QR codes, unlocking scooters, paying for parking, etc.
Demetri Martin has a great joke on digital cameras: "I like digital cameras, because they enable you to reminisce immediately. Just like, look at us. We’re so young. Standing right there, wow. Where does the minute go?"
If it's not eink and it's not smaller than other small-ish phones then I don't really see the point of using this besides skinning an existing phone and just not installing apps you don't need.
Get an iphone mini, don't install any apps, turn on greyscale mode. There you have a cheaper version of this, and if you have any apps that you actually need for identification or banks or similar you can actually still use them without needing a second phone.
There is usually a way to hide it and if you don't use them you should not get any (or at least not many) notifications. For more free android phones you can also absolutely remove them or load a distro that does not include them at all.
I'm very confident that I could recreate a similar enough experience on iOS or "normal" android at a similar price-point.
people on this forum thinking the problem with Samsung installing Facebook in a way you can't disable is only a problem because of seeing the icon or receiving notifications... if the tech elite is that alienated and lame i think it's all over
Yeah this is the thing that confuses me about this, it's priced the same as some mid-range smartphones. It seems like you're paying a significant premium to have the control over which apps you can use strictly enforced. If that's the only way you can do it and people are willing to pay, then I guess fair enough?
So many services now, including government, are requiring phones for "two step" authentication. There are technically alternatives like receiving a phone call or a secret word lookup table, but those are so impractical to use that I need my phone to be a TOTP device. I was close to putting in a preorder but I will need to see TOTP supported before I can drop my regular smart phone.
You could use something like this as a companion to the phone - a standalone TOTP device. More secure than a phone too since it can't be remotely hacked (though it might require USB for programming, so it's not completely immune to hacking)
An alternative is a really slow and old android phone. One that has a visible lag as it logs in and you have to wait for a minute or so before the apps open.
Doesn't "old android phone" also mean one that's no longer getting security updates? Probably not what you want on a phone that hosts your TOTP tokens.
if you don't run random apps and or use it for web browsing, and block incoming sms, a standalone device would have a smaller attack surface. if you really wanted to be paranoid, TOTP is computed off the time and a seed value and doesn't need Internet access, so the standalone device could have the cell modem and wifi disabled to reduce the attack surface even more.
> are there services which don't support [non-TOTP MFA]?
Yes, there are many which still only support SMS MFA -- and if you meant TOTP-On-Yubi, that's its own can of worms (limited size, [intentionally?] hard to sync or backup, vender lock-in?). I hope passkeys lead to brouder FIDO/U2F support.
Not only are there tons of devices that don't support non TOTP, a lot of them are not optional due to monopoly or oligopoly. Government, for one. Banking is another (SMS "auth")
It's interesting seeing the attempts to make a phone that only does what you want it to do, and not be a huge distraction. I totally understand the desire for this too, modern phones are a rabbit hole of content, and after enough apps get installed you end up with a phone in a hard-to-use state.
But I have a lot of trouble seeing a new piece of hardware being the solution. Sure, this thing only does a handful of things, and that's it. There's no temptation to install the latest game, or a bunch of different messaging and social apps, because there's only so much you can actually do with the phone. It's basically a "dumb phone" with a few extra features to make it more palatable.
But there's a problem with this simplicity. If you have a need that the phone doesn't meet, you're screwed. The only way to get this phone up-to-spec with other phones is to have a marketplace full of apps, each providing the functionality you desire, and at that point you're just another iOS or Android platform with the same problems.
Just get a phone without much bloat, like a Pixel, Nothing, OnePlus, or Fairphone, and consider putting a custom ROM on it to further scale it down. Then just do regular app maintenance - remove apps you don't want or need anymore, and go through your notification history and shut up every app that you don't need to hear from.
You're not going to be able to have the superpowers of a smartphone without also needing to do some amount of housekeeping. With the power of having a personal computer in your pocket comes the responsibility of taking care of it.
Light Phone dudes, if your whole thing is going to be future-proofing and "planned obsolescence remains an outrage to us," maybe don't stick III at the end of your product's name.
What is the connection? You don't always have to buy the latest of anything, certainly not the latest Light Phone. And as I'm sure you read, "We have no plans to stop producing or supporting the Light Phone II."
If they serve different needs and purposes, then name them based on the distinct goals. On the other hand, if you get into a habit of regularly releasing new models that are strictly better than their predecessors, you're setting your internal incentives up towards encouraging your customers to upgrade, and that way lies planned obsolescence, despite your current best intentions.
I am in the camp that sees themselves getting rid of a smart phone in the future. Right now I've been on the "defanged iPhone" warpath, whittling down my apps to just the necessities. It's been working well, perhaps made easier by giving up social media and news years ago (feeds are harder...I've managed a 1+yr HN fasts a few times, but get sucked back in because of how intellectually stimulating it can be here).
I really want to like this phone, and applaud what they are doing. But...it's still a "phone". Aside from the obvious, how is this fundamentally different (or better) than a defanged iPhone/smartphone? When are we going to rethink this problem of how we integrate networked technology into our daily lives in a way that's healthier for us?
I've been tempted by a Light Phone for years but have never made the leap. GrapheneOS and paring my list of apps way down. A homescreen replacement from the F-Droid app store that looks extremely similar to Light Phone's home screen is a nice balance without losing Signal messenger, but I have to say I'm really tempted by this new generation.
I'd say the price is way too high, but hardware isn't easy and they don't seem to be pushing for subscription revenue or selling data.
This is looking better and better, and I really want to try it, but am unable to make the full leap.
Has anyone had experience switching between the Light Phone and their daily phone on a day-by-day basis? My daily phone is Android, I don't know if that's relevant.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work with Google Fi, but I could possibly switch carriers if it came to it.
For me, any carrier I switch to is more expensive than my current one. So, I've been waiting for them to add the ability to change APN settings for a couple years now as my light phone sits in the box...
There's a pretty active modding / hacking channel in the Light Phone discord that's out there somewhere. I haven't tried it on my own LP2, but some folks are flashing theirs with alternate versions of Android to get a few additional apps that they need
In my opinion, not having an open platform and open-source code is completely at odds with "respecting the user" and whatever nice stuff they write on their website.
It's be interesting to know what's under the hood, software and spec wise. I'd speculate it's probably fairly lightly modified Android, alike the Rabbit.
There's already a Hisense A9 Pro for e-ink phones. $500 and Android 11 are two huge turn-offs though. Trustability is also up there.
This phone looks a bit boxy but overall dimensions seem maybe a bit shorter than most? I keep thinking of the reading experience; when I read on my phone, I turn off the bottom 1/2 of my screen, since I don't need my eyes to be looking down as much. I keep thinking it'd be very neat to have a very small screen device that still has good e-reading. But you'd likely need a companion device for navigation, if you need to jump around or take notes.
I really want to make the switch, but I still need a web browser for a minimum viable replacement. I don’t want to manage 2 phones just for the occasional restaurant that makes you order from a QR code or parking meter with a busted display
The idea of a restaurant or parking meter requiring internet access is crazy to me. I'm clearly just getting old, but there's no way I'd gate my customers on the assumption that they have a smartphone with them. Dead batteries, data connection issues, shit happens.
I missed that they moved from an eink display to AMOLED.
I'm a little surprised they did that actually, I thought they got quite a few customers due to the e-ink display. There have been a few devices recently with greatly improved eink performance and resolution, I was hoping the LP3 would have managed to go with one to keep the nicer reading experience.
I know everyone and their mom is doing it now, but I still love the teenage engineering design proportions (assuming this isn't straight up designed by TE) + razer phone cues this is taking. Also, screws are cool and no one can convince me otherwise.
I would totally just buy it for the shape and hope-to-gosh I can install Lineage on it.
I've been following Light since their first model, and I do like the idea of a minimalist phone. But considering it would have to be my second phone, used outside of work, at $800 it's very hard to see how they expect to make a dent with this.
My guess is yes. I have a little MP3 player (HiFi Walker) with similar thickness and hard edges, and I had to find a little silicone sleeve for it because it rubbed a hole in my pocket from walking with it too much.
I know some are mourning the loss of the eink, but as someone who tried to make the LP2 work for a few months, I think this higher price point and better display and build will ultimately serve them better. The LP2 was too underpowered, felt cheap, and frankly unreliable (alarms straight-up not working were a big part of me ditching it). 5G, NFC, a camera, a good screen, etc. all make this a much more appealing product. I don't think the increased capabilities will cause "app creep" and negate the original intent of the project.
It's very attractive, but even as a 100% distraction-pilled person, my phone really needs Whatsapp, Signal and Spotify to be viable. Much of a phone is unhealthy mind garbage but not all of it.
It would be nice to know what services they use to provide the navigation data. And in addition they should provide some sort of full disclosure of what happens to your data.
I think an eink phone running full android is the perfect compromise between a dumb phone and a smartphone. Shame the light phone is losing the eink screen.
Here’s a video of me using various popular android apps on an eink Hisense A9 smartphone.
https://youtu.be/dvO9ScTdwz8
TLDR: Great for reading/text/messaging/hacker news, terrible for video and scrolling.
Yeah, you can buy a cheap android and uninstall everything, except the thing will still be huge and google will still be in your pocket. They're all made for media production/consumption, and there are very few adequate devices available.
[edit to add] as others mentioned, no TOTP auth app was the other requirement missing