> that they are seen as members of the community rather than a blight, right?
I don't know how it works in the US, but they are primarily people in need of care, like a person with a disease, they need to be cured before they can go back to the society and be part of it or they will return to segregate themselves and die alone sooner or later.
Putting them behind 4 walls is exactly making them invisible, so that the general population won't be upset.
So, before we can get funding for treatment we need public will, right?
So long as they are viewed as degenerates unwilling to engage in basic care, there will never be the public will. And for some they wouldn't take the help even if it was available, because for a minority it is in fact a lifestyle choice.
Given both those facts, the first step to getting public will for treatment is to minimize the negative perceptions of the class, which is best achieved in the immediate term by reducing visibility, specifically of the street drug addicts.
Combine with safe supply and direct interventionist supports (room checks, emergency buttons, etc) and there would be both an immediate improvement in QoL, individual outcomes and public sentiment towards further supports.
A key is to not permit use in rooms but only at safe sites within the building. Rule violation would mean switching to a monitored room (camera to ensure no drug abuse).
One issue underlying all of this though so that such systems simply can't work for those who suffered abuse by the system in the past, there's too many of our visible homeless and drug users who are where they are almost exclusively because of abuses in foster care or imprisonment (borne of false conviction). Those people will almost never participate in a gov or NGO program which includes facilities and monitoring.... And I don't really blame them.
The truth is we need to stop the problem before it starts and the only real way is to prevent traumas, treats those we can't prevent and bring justice against those who use the system to abuse others or protect abusers.
Sadly, in many ways most drug addicts are a "lost cause" before they even start using, just as so many alcoholics are.
That's the consequences of systemic willful ignorance of trauma.
> So, before we can get funding for treatment we need public will, right?
Again, that's a different problem entirely.
In my Country healthcare is public and funded by taxation.
We also have publicly funded damage reduction centers where they provide methadone to heroin addicts, problem is most of the time they do not show up voluntarily because of the stigma associated with it, secondly because those willingly participating are already in recover and take it to minimize the effects of abstinence. They are already on the path of healing.
> So long as they are viewed as degenerates unwilling to engage in basic care
They aren't all degenerates, you are putting emphasis on something no one ever said, but they are obviously unwilling or they would not need special treatments.
If they are able to take care of themselves, they don't need external help.
But only a very small minority is.
> A key is to not permit use in rooms but only at safe sites within the building
Which, again, as I've said before, is exactly why they do not need "4 walls with privacy"
Methadone is permitted only in person and they have to assume it in the facility that provides it under medical check, otherwise the first thing most of them would do is trade the methadone with something else.
> Rule violation would mean switching to a monitored room
That's the one thing that makes everything worse: basically it's an house arrest. We do not arrest as many addicts as in the US, but we still have jails full of people that used drugs that would be much better of somewhere else outside a cell (which basically is the 4 walls with privacy minus the drugs plus the suicide opportunity)
> The truth is we need to stop the problem before it starts and the only real way is to prevent traumas
> They aren't all degenerates, you are putting emphasis on something no one ever said, but they are obviously unwilling or they would not need special treatments.
Holy hell active misrepresentation much? Or is your reading comprehension just that poor?
You even quoted it yet didnt actually read it?
> So long as they are viewed as degenerates unwilling to engage in basic care
VIEWED AS
That's not remotely the same as actually being such.
Your whole diatribe is the same disingenuous, misrepresentative, seemingly deceptive, bs.
I'm not engaging with someone so dishonest, regardless of their intentionality.
> Holy hell active misrepresentation much? Or is your reading comprehension just that poor?
Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
> VIEWED AS
Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put *asterisks* around it and it will get italicized.
I am a non native English speaker, but you are honestly trying to have a fight on something that it's not there.
Never said you called them degenerates, but that not all of them are (implying that some of them are), and that the emphasis on the "viewed as degenerates" is superfluous because no one pointed that out in this conversation.
Moreover, they are not viewed as unwilling, they are unwilling or we would not be talking about it.
I'll explain once again: they are not simply "viewed as degenerates unwilling to" they are obviously unwilling, some of them are clearly degenerates and all of them engage in some kind of anti social behaviour, mostly against their family members, which makes them outcasts.
> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
Yea effing exactly. That's what You did not do
> Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized.
Italics would have been useless with YOU since you have such poor language comprehension, as evidenced by your attempt to use a rule against me that you initially and then repeatedly violated.
Now for the rest of your bs:
You're a hateful bigot hiding behind low effort shit talk.
I'm not being mean or hyperbolic, that s exactly what you are.
I see no value in continuing to engage with someone who plays games with the truth and refuses to engage in good faith.
May you live in the world as you would have it, so long as you live as the least advantaged.
Have you tried to talk to a specialist about your rage?
I can help, if you come to Italy, I know many good doctors, my family mostly works in public healthcare here, many of them in psychiatric care, others in infectious diseases, my mom took care of AIDS patients for over 20 years, I grew up playing soccer with addicts in recover, I saw many of them die because they were put behind 4 walls and left alone, please take care of yourself and go to see your friends and family as much as you can.
> May you live in the world as you would have it, so long as you live as the least advantaged.
- I'm not being mean or hyperbolic, that s exactly what you are. (I let you, the reader, guess what other biases are present in this sentence)
- May you live in the world as you would have it, so long as you live as the least advantaged. (this is technically a curse, I'll let you decide if you prefer to call it Schadenfreude or malevolence)
Sincerely hoping that you'll be better soon, I send you all my best wishes.
p.s. this is the psychiatric hospital were my aunt worked until it's been shut down.
I used to go visit there when I was a kid, to play with the patients' children, who had not many friends as one can imagine.
I know a thing or two about mental health issues.
If that makes me a hateful bigot, I am proud to be one then.
I'm sure you'll have no problem reading and understanding Italian.
> May you live in the world as you would have it, so long as you live as the least advantaged. (this is technically a curse, I'll let you decide if you prefer to call it Schadenfreude or malevolence)
A curse? It's technically a blessing on any Decent person ... It's only a curse on those who want inequality and others to suffer....
Which is exactly what you are from everything youve shown, so you deserve exactly that.
You seem to have unintentionally proved my point about your nature and form of engagement.
> A curse? It's technically a blessing on any Decent person
Not in my book.
The least advantaged are the people dying in the Mediterranean sea right now or fighting a war or having too little to eat for them and their children.
Maybe it is for those who believe in that book where a person named God kills the people he doesn't like.
But I guess one could read it as "if everyone is the least advantaged, there are no least advantaged" that for me, a socialist, coming from a family with deep roots in the Italian Communist party, is welcome, as long as we work together to improve anyone's condition, not just for some.
I guess that wouldn't fly in places like the United States.
> Which is exactly what you are from everything youve shown, so you deserve exactly that.
So by your logic I deserve it for wanting inequality and others to suffer
Which, BTW, it is only in your mind.
Are you one of those people that still believe in "an eye for an eye"?
Are you stuck to 3 thousands years ago or what?
Haven't you read your book?
It says "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" not "thou shalt despise thy neighbor as thyself".
Have you ever spent quality time with an addict, a former one, a person suffering from mental health issues, a person with an infectious disease or terminally hill, a kid from Rwanda with the skull crushed by a bat or part of the scalp removed by a machete that miraculously survived?
What's your contribution to alleviate human suffering in this World?
I'm eager to ear about it.
> You seem to have unintentionally proved my point about your nature and form of engagement.
Nahhh, I simply proved that you can't stop hating on me for some reason and that your condition is called obsession and it's driven by rage.
And you know how I know it?
Because you said there was no point arguing with me 2 days ago, and yet you're still here.
Actively ignored the part "world as you would have it" which provides the option to have a world without any of the evils you list.
Either you're actively choosing to present as willfully ignorant Or you are a genuine effing moron who can't comprehend simple single sentence statements.
In either case, you should refrain from engaging with any other humans on any issue of substance, ever again.
Given the rest of your pointless diatribe, I'm going with the former and that you're a worthless excuse for a human more aptly labelled a massive trolling pos.
> Actively ignored the part "world as you would have it" which provides the option to have a world without any of the evils you list.
I don't believe in fairy tales.
I am an adult person, sorry, you can try that with your kids if you want.
That option does not exist for many people who are living in hell right now.
> Either you're actively choosing to present as willfully ignorant
Still waiting to ear what you did to help other people in your life to cast a judgement on other people.
Apart from your bla bla bla bla, your self entitled attitude and your self-congratulation syndrome, you seem to be simply an enraged kid full of bullshit.
> Given the rest of your pointless diatribe, I'm going with the former and that you're a worthless excuse for a human more aptly labelled a massive trolling pos.
bla bla bla bla
If you are older than 18, you got a big problem man.
Either that or you are one of those catholic zealots that have ruined this World.
I feel pity for you, honestly.
If you were my son, I would do anything in my power to help you.
Unfortunately your parents are not like me, apparently.
said the person that never helped anybody, except his ego...
still here?
are you so alone in this World?
Listen kid, I really would like to be here for you as long as you need it, but I got my own family to spend time with, so take care, please find someone to talk IRL and stop being so angry all the time.
I don't know how it works in the US, but they are primarily people in need of care, like a person with a disease, they need to be cured before they can go back to the society and be part of it or they will return to segregate themselves and die alone sooner or later.
Putting them behind 4 walls is exactly making them invisible, so that the general population won't be upset.
Not exactly a solution in my eyes.