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Handling below average on a Model 3? Really?


I wish Elon would read this article and get some sleep.


Are you doing LCHF (low carb high fat) as well or just IF (intermittent fasting)?


No, I eat mostly how I've eaten for many years, just on an intermittent schedule. But, I've always eaten pretty healthy; I've been vegetarian for 24 years and relatively conscious of what I eat. I tend to a eat a lot, so if I don't eat good stuff, I get fat. I eat probably more fat than average, and I don't avoid fat, but my diet isn't "high fat", I don't think, and it's certainly not low carb, though I do avoid sugars and many kinds of processed foods, and I never eat fast food. I eat bread, rice, and/or tortillas, regularly, at least once a day, and I tend to eat a pretty sizeable serving. Fruit and vegetables probably make up the majority of the volume/mass I'm consuming most days, but a significant portion of calories come from carbs.

My health has always been, thankfully, very good. I'm not doing intermittent fasting to address any specific problem. Losing weight was a goal, because my pants (the same size I've been wearing since college) weren't fitting comfortably anymore...it worked for that, and all my pants fit again. But, I wasn't trying to reboot my eating in some dramatic way. I did try a low carb high fat/protein thing for a while before beginning intermittent fasting, as a way to lose weight, but it didn't work for me. The restrictions just took the fun out of meals. I love food, I love cooking it, love eating it with friends/family, etc. It's pretty hard to have normal meals on a very restrictive diet. I couldn't imagine living out the rest of my days without bread or rice, and any diet change has to be sustainable for decades or it's going to be part of a cycle of weight gain and loss. Intermittent fasting has been sustainable for me. I don't even think about it most days.


It seems like you’re on a diet very similar to what Valter Longo recommends, which is based on his longevity studies

https://valterlongo.com/daily-longevity-diet/


Yeah, I'm not familiar with Valter Longo, but that diet does pretty well match up with what I'm trying to do. I might be a little high on the protein, when I'm making seitan regularly...it's roughly equivalent to meat in protein content, and as with most things I enjoy I tend to eat a lot of it when I cook it. I'll have to do some more reading about what the science says about vegetable proteins like seitan and tofu.


What are the Vista Best Practices? Also what are the “critical factors for success”?


I've owned a Model 3 for over 5 months now with almost 6k miles on it. All I can attest to is my personal experience and the experience of some friends who also own a Model 3. Performance and handling on this car is truly amazing. Autopilot (at least in my personal experience) has been excellent. That said I understand the limitations of Autopilot and keep cautious oversight when it's on. I've head a few minor issues with the car but they are very minor compares to how great the car has been. For example, my trunk is difficult to close. One of the panel pieces was bulging out but service ranger fixed that. And sometimes the car doesn't recognize my phone to start the car, so I need to start it from the app or use the key card. Hopefully Tesla will be able to iron out these issues, and other issues that early owners have had. But I went into it knowing that I'm an early owner and will face some issues on first gen, first year car. All first gen, first year cars have their share of problems.

But overall, I suggest those who seriously want to know what kind of car the Model 3 is, is to test drive the car. And to ask Model 3 owners about the car. The vast, vast majority of Model 3 owners I've talked with tell me the car is truly amazing.


This comment was confusing to me because it's super-positive and doesn't mention the article, so I thought the article itself is also positive. However:

"Sixteen weeks into ownership, we've had so many issues with our Model 3 that we started a shared Google Doc to catalog various warning messages, necessary screen resets and general failures." "We put down a $1,000 deposit to get on a two-year waiting list for this car and it's falling apart."

Disclaimer: I work in automotive for not Tesla.


How do you like the touchscreen? This has always been my biggest concern. I don't like non tactile controls, and it sounds like some fairly simple and common features like mirror adjustments are buried in menus. Taking eye off the road for that screen doesn't sound good?


The UI is pretty intuitive and they are making regular usability updates. Many things on the car are automatic so you don't have to mess with controls anyway, such as windshield wipers, lights, seat position, etc.


So do you feel like you don't need to take your eyes off the road any more than with traditional controls?


No, I don't. The Model 3 still has volume and toggle knobs on the wheel, so you can adjust audio without looking. Similarly to other cars, you have to look for a sec if you want to do something more complex. But it's not really a problem at all.


I've never "commonly" adjusted a side mirror -- it's a very occasional thing.


That is true, I'm getting old and have memory seats now. I'm 6'4" so this used to be more common for me before memory seats. Or in other people's cars.


I so want memory seats. My wife is about 8 inches shorter than me...


I am trying to think of any other first generation first year car that had a problem so basic as being on the order of "car doesn't recognize the key/keyfob and so won't start" and I can't think of one.


My first-release Subaru XV wouldn't re-start lots during the stop-start feature... in traffic. You'd have to put it in park, completely turn the car off, take key out, put key back in, and restart the car. Turning off the stop-start was the "solution" offered online, which reset every time you got back in the car (so it was easy to forget).

Also the entire entertainment unit would "crash" every couple days, and not work until another full "reboot" of the car like above. The screen would just lock up, music would stop, nothing at all on the centre screen would respond.

I also had a VW Passat TSI that went back to the dealership 6 times in the first year for electrical issues. Everything from the gearbox sensors failing causing the car to go into limp mode, to the centre screen locking up like the XV (in this case it would just fail to boot when you turned the car on), to the electric seats moving themselves (bad ground). They ended up buying back that car after the entire motor AND gearbox needed replacing at 11mths in.

I've owned a fair few new cars, and very few haven't had issues. Most were so insignificant I just waited until next service schedule, but many needed to go back under warranty.

New cars are complex machines that have problems.


VW and Subaru don't rank near the top of anyone's reliability rankings. You don't seem bothered by the problems, but if you were you could always buy something like a Toyota/Lexus.


This is incorrect. Subaru is ranked second in realiability after Toyota in consumer reports.


I guess I was thinking of: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...

and yeah, Subaru doesn't rank too badly (sixth) on that list. I always thought of Subarus as being good, long-term powertrain reliability notwithstanding. The gas mileage they're getting while running normally-aspirated, full-time AWD powertrains is pretty impressive. I can't imagine why the parent's car was so utterly screwed up, but I wouldn't be happy about a problem that required me to turn the car off and take the key out.

I think the advice on getting a Toyota or a Lexus if you want to maximize your odds of not having problems like the parent described still stands. The conventional wisdom is that their reliability comes from making continuous small changes to their models instead of waiting to make major changes, although next year's Corolla hatchback looks like a pretty major one. It will be interesting to see what the first-year reliability of that model is.


OP did say that the key card worked but the phone recognition didn’t.

I’ve owned few cars with any sort of phone integrations beyond basic Bluetooth and they almost never work. Heck I own a Toyota truck they’ve been making for decades with a digital interface that’s probably five years mature and you still have to install one of their (overwhelmingly one-star rated) apps to do anything interesting with it. even if the app does work you get integration with a B-grade navigation app or iHeartRadio.

It’s not really a fair comparison.


I think you misunderstood. He is saying the feature where it recognizes your phone is near the car and unlocks wasn’t working. The key fob and opening the app manually still work.


Tesla doesn't give you a fob. You just have your phone, and the valet/guest card.


Yeah, I misspoke. It's a card not a fob. Like others said, it isn't a valet/guest card. It is actually the main "key" to your car in addition to your phone.


Oh, geez. Did they at least make it so that you can have more than one phone associated without sharing the same password?


Yes, it supports three according to the manual.


Wow, Tesla used a whole two bits to track the number of associations!


Does this work when your phone runs out of charge, or do you need to find a good samaritan that will charge it for you?


The key card is your backup for when the phone isn't available for whatever reason. It's not a valet key, it's the main car key. (Valet mode is activated from the touchscreen, or your phone.)

Personally, I'm looking forward to not carrying a bulky fob with me everywhere. The key card will go in my wallet with my other cards, and my pockets will be lighter.


As far as the radio volume issue they were having: My 1997 Audi A4 had a similar problem. Unlike the Tesla, I didn't have the option of a firmware update to fix it. :-)


It sounds like the key fob did work as others pointed out. However I'm sure there are still lots of unfinished things. When I was out in Chicago with my buddy late last year I got to drive the updated Model S and I noticed the windshield wipers wouldn't come on automatically whenever it rained. After digging through the menu we found a thing that said said something like "feature coming soon" for automatic wipers. Kinda sucks to not have feature a lot of very entry level luxury-ish cars have. Overall the tech is cool and I bet they offer a lot more future functionality through patching. Just feels like they are always in a rush to launch to get some cash in the door and they go with "that will do for now" as the solution.

I hear they got a patch out around last new years to finally address this.


It's only Model S with AP2 that had that problem: the original S and the AP1 S both shipped with working automatic wipers on day 1.

But yes, that's the kind of thing you should expect from Tesla... just like you should expect that the missing-but-common feature of backup-lines on the backup camera to be retroactively added 3 years after the initial cars shipped. Yin and yang.


Yea he has the AP2, thanks I forgot what it was called. Sadly that is the kind of thing I'd expect and it completely understandably takes away from the value of their products. Everyone has their own equation for what makes sense and I'm sure some are fine with these issues too. Good thing we have a free market with many options :-).


When I first got my S, if you left the windshield wipers on the automatic setting, and it had rained in the recent past, when you unlocked the car and opened the door, the wipers would activate once and throw water on you.

Mercedes, which uses the same wiper system, had the same bug.

The difference is that Mercedes never fixed those cars. Tesla did.

So yes, there are issues. But it's not a straight win for either Tesla or non-Tesla. It's just different.


Yea I mentioned that as well in my prior post, that tesla does patch and like I said everyone has a different equation to decide what they want.


I left my Keyless entry Mazda 3 keys on the drivers seat and it locked me out at the gas station. There are some things that should just not go wrong on a car!


My Camry Hybrid won't lock the doors from the outside if the key fob is inside. You have to lock it from inside if the fob is inside.


I can confirm that it is amazing. Yes there are some software bugs but it's hard to care when your car is that fucking amazing. They release software updates often.


Do you use any phone?


I've got an LG B470 flip phone. It's really quite a piece of crap but it does the minimum. I've got a family and a side business, so it's not really practical to go without (despite the temptation.)

My fondest hope is that enough people will step back from smartphones to create a market for slightly-more-capable flip phones. At a minimum, having a decent camera would be nice.


(in no order and i might have left out some)

1. Traveling and living overseas for over half of my twenties. Gave me a world and multi-cultural perspective.

2. Getting emotional healing from an abusive childhood. Gave me confidence to pursue life from a place of healing and peace.

3. Getting married to my wife who I share everything with, including being work partners.

4. Having children which has opened up a whole new aspect of wonder, curiosity and adventure.


How did you get to travel and live overseas in your twenties?


You might be waiting 10 years?


I've been invested in TSLA since 2012. And there's always been people saying it's "over-valued", especially the media or folks who don't believe in Tesla's mission or potential. The best thing I've found is to work the numbers a few years out and see what you come up with. Sure, each person's forecasts will be different, but I base my numbers off of company forecasts and also Tesla's track record.

2020 deliveries: 1M vehicles (according to company guidance) Average sale price per vehicle: 900k Model 3 and Model Y x ASP $42k = $37.8B. Plus 110k Model S/X x ASP $90k = $10B. Total revenue $47.8B

Gross margin = 25% (company guidance is 30%+ for Model S/X and "mid-20s" for Model 3/Y).

Gross profit = $12B

Operating expenses = $6B (note: It's difficult to predict operating expenses 3 years out, but Tesla will likely experience a lot of operating leverage as their sales will grow much faster than R&D and sales.)

EBITDA: $6B

P/E multiple: 30 (note: If targets are achieved in 2020, Tesla likely to be growing 50% year in revenue and would likely fetch a 30-40 P/E multiple.)

Market cap: $180B

# shares outstanding: 185M shares (currently 164M outstanding)

2020 stock price = $972

A few comments:

1. The above are my forecasts based on my beliefs that Tesla can reach their own forecasts of # vehicles delivered in 2020 and gross margins.

2. Each person has their own beliefs/ideas of Tesla. So, I'm not trying to convince anyone.

3. This model can be tweaked based on changes in # vehicles delivered, gross margin, or operating expenses... to name a few factors. So, it's not perfect but it gives the basics.

4. If you find someone bearish on TSLA and who thinks it's "overvalued", ask them to give you numbers like I have. Chances are they won't be able to.

5. The Model 3 will be the iPhone moment for autos. A sexy car that redefines transport and brings in high margins. This is why Tesla has potential to be the most valuable company in the world by 2025.

6. Tesla's moat grows as they execute faster than any other auto company. It's not appropriate to value TSLA based on other auto makers. It's like valuing AAPL in 2007 based off of Nokia and Blackberry.


You believe Tesla is going from zero Model 3's to 900k Model 3's in a 3-year timespan?

To put that into perspective, that's more annual production and sales than the Toyota Camry plus Toyota Corolla.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Camry#Sales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Corolla#Sales


http://corporatenews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/world+mos...

Corolla sales are above 1.2M per year.

The 900k number is Model 3 and Model Y.


Current model assumes one car per person. That's because only one person can drive a car.

How many self driving Teslas could be needed to meet transportation demand for just the US. A lot more than a million.

If Tesla can actually deliver a mass produced self driving car while everyone is still figuring out how to make electric cars with good mileage then they become the next Toyota. Just like Apple became the next Nokia.


Wow, someone on the Internet that summarizes the bull case for Tesla rationally, succinctly, and with numbers to boot!


Looks like you might be using EBITDA wrong up there ('operating profit'). just fyi. This approach is essential but most casual investors seem to overlook it. I find it also useful to contemplate worst case and best case scenarios and orthogonal scenarios and kind of work it all together in the intuition blender. For instance, by the time your 2020 rolls around I think it will be 100% obvious that ICEs are the walking dead (who is gonna buy a new one hoping to sell it ever when 5 years down the road there's far fewer buyers?), and that autonomous ride sharing is gonna become huge, and that Tesla may not produce a lot of profit in manufacture but in software\revenue sharing, and that they may never hit high manufacture numbers at all (or may literally detach that part).


I wonder if somebody could translate from accounting-speak. What is EBITDA? Where does this PE multiple come from?


EBITDA = earning before interest, tax, depreciation and amortization, i.e. how much money is left after all usual expenditures are subtracted

PE = Price / Earnings ratio, an indicator which shows how aggressively a company is priced


EBITDA represents a company’s net earnings before subtracting expenses from interest payments, taxes, depreciation, and amortization.


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