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Promising project, but keyboard internationalization is a mess. It's unusable for those using non-English keyboard layouts.

https://github.com/lapce/lapce/issues/2244

https://github.com/lapce/lapce/issues/1094

https://github.com/lapce/lapce/issues/1689

https://github.com/lapce/lapce/issues/2731


It's at 0.3, cut them some slack.


This is kind of a problem in that it reduces the number of potential early users, testers and ultimately contributors. Sure it is still early in its development process, but it is important work to do in order to gain traction.


As a non-native English speaker who speaks 4 languages, I have almost never found myself using any other language than English in a code editor or IDE. And I never seen anyone who did, except for very occasional editing of localisation data files.


I have seen used (mainly in comments): Japanese, French, German, Dutch, Chinese (don't know if it was TC or SC; if those are even different unicode ranges or whether they are differentiated by font), and, if I remember correctly, Afrikaans. It's also kinda funny and a little off-putting to see English keywords side-by-side with, like, Dutch variable names.


I'm not going to criticize them but being able to type with my keyboard is pretty high in my list of requirements for a text editor :D


Indeed, navigating keyboard internationalization is a rabbit hole within a time-sink. Luckily, in most cases, you can just plop in a library, and it works, but it's probably not that simple here. All the wtf edge cases, plus the quirks of different operating systems and hardware manufacturers—it's the stuff of nightmares.


An alternative way of looking at this: a text editor's main job is to turn keys pressed into characters to be inserted in the document and commands to be executed.


So what? It isn’t claiming to be ready, for its main job or otherwise.


I do not see any indication of its "not-readiness" anywhere in the README https://github.com/lapce/lapce or their website: https://lapce.dev/

So while it isn't claiming to be ready, their content does not tell otherwise. Yes, the version is 0.3, but Neovim is at 0.9.


> Yes, the version is 0.3, but Neovim is at 0.9.

I would argue that that's a fault on neovim's side; I'm sure there's a reason, but I would call it 1.x software.


Oh, that's to be version-comparable to Emacs, which is at version 29. Vim being at 9 is just way too optimistic!

duck and run


Says pre alpha right at the very top of the website.


Oh, you're right, it's there right above the title "Lightning-fast and Powerful Code Editor". I swear they added that after my post ;)


Keyboard handling is so fundamental that a text editor must deal with it, perfectly, from the beginning. The cited issues aren't merely a severe and high impact bug cluster, but also an inexcusable design defect that disqualifies the whole project; I suppose someone decided to use Rust despite the lack of sufficiently mature input handling libraries.


> Keyboard handling is so fundamental that a text editor must deal with it, perfectly, from the beginning.

That would be nice but in reality it's such a tricky and subtle problem that nobody does it perfectly. All the operating systems and browsers are buggy in different ways, nevermind anything with smaller budgets. The deeper you get into proper text handling, the more you will realize that nobody has solved it.


Handling dead keys and displaying national characters is solved problem and has been since MS-DOS times. It's really not that "tricky and subtle problem" in 2023. Unless one is inventing keyboard handling from scratch again.


Dead keys are a drop in the ocean of what goes into international keyboard handling, and even that functions differently in every browser and OS. Which browser or OS do you think has it solved, or do you think that all of them are solved despite giving different results for the same sequence of presses?

Displaying text is an even deeper issue and also broken, the further you go from latin alphabets.

Referencing MS-DOS really takes the cake though. The Unicode standard wasn't even released until late 1991. They're still updating it even today, because it's a lot of work to handle international languages.


Perfection is unlikely, but serious developers should aim to be less buggy than the competition and/or limited by operating system and hardware shortcomings.


That's a very strong opinion about a project that is at 0.3 and is attending to many simultaneous problems, including building their own UI solution.

It's certainly an issue, especially for non-English users, but it doesn't "disqualify the whole project"; it just means that's not what they're prioritising at this time.


Prioritising glamorous and interesting aspects like plugins and "their own UI solution" over boring correctness is not the way to deliver a good text editor.


I'm sure contributions are welcome to solve the problem


Please, contribute to discussion at least.


Utrecht, but yes.


  % ping whatsapp.com
  ping: whatsapp.com: Name or service not known
  % ping web.whatsapp.com
  ping: web.whatsapp.com: Name or service not known
  % ping facebook.com
  ping: facebook.com: Name or service not known
  % ping instagram.com
  PING instagram.com (31.13.65.174) 56(84) bytes of data.
  64 bytes from 31.13.65.174 (31.13.65.174): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=110 ms


Of course Fred had bills to pay as well, but on the whole his motivations were certainly overwhelmingly altruistic. Read his Wikipedia page[1] to get an idea of what drove him to produce Mr. Rogers. Here's an excerpt:

>Trained and ordained as a minister, Rogers was displeased with the way television addressed children. He began to write and perform local Pittsburgh-area shows for youth. In 1968, Eastern Educational Television Network began nationwide distribution of Rogers's new show on WQED. Over the course of three decades, Rogers became a television icon of children's entertainment and education.

>Rogers advocated various public causes. In the Betamax case, the U.S. Supreme Court cited Rogers's prior testimony before a lower court in favor of fair-use television show recording (now called time shifting). Rogers also testified before a U.S. Senate committee to advocate for government funding of children's television.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rogers


Interesting home page https://thebeez.home.xs4all.nl/


Click the 'o' in Enforcement


Embedded image USEMAPs make me feel old. I remember when you couldn't even reliably support them in all web browsers. For each clickable image map you also needed a GET/POST form 'CGI' program that was passed only relative image coordinates of the click and had to decode it server side.


Wow. How did you find it? Thanks for sharing the tip.


Repeatedly hit the Tab key. It's likely you'll see 'o' link getting outlined.


I remember that 199X trend, where you would re-create an FBI warning: orange tape, gif of a spinning warning light, etc. Expect this to be the same era joke.


C. S. Lewis on interest (from Mere Christianity):

>There is one bit of advice given to us by the ancient heathen Greeks, and by the Jews in the Old Testament, and by the great Christian teachers of the Middle Ages, which the modern economic system has completely disobeyed. All these people told us not to lend money at interest: and lending money at interest — what we call investment — is the basis of our whole system. Now it may not absolutely follow that we are wrong. Some people say that when Moses and Aristotle and the Christians agreed in forbidding interest (or “usury” as they called it), they could not foresee the joint stock company, and were only dunking of the private moneylender, and that, therefore, we need not bother about what they said.

>That is a question I cannot decide on. I am not an economist and I simply do not know whether the investment system is responsible for the state we are in or not. This is where we want the Christian economist. But I should not have been honest if I had not told you that three great civilizations had agreed (or so it seems at first sight) in condemning the very thing on which we have based our whole life.


Investment returns are not usury - see sharia banking


>Originally, usury meant interest of any kind.[0]

For example, here's Aristotle on usury[1]:

>There are two sorts of wealth-getting, as I have said; one is a part of household management, the other is retail trade: the former necessary and honorable, while that which consists in exchange is justly censured; for it is unnatural, and a mode by which men gain from one another. The most hated sort, and with the greatest reason, is usury, which makes a gain out of money itself, and not from the natural object of it. For money was intended to be used in exchange, but not to increase at interest. And this term interest, which means the birth of money from money, is applied to the breeding of money because the offspring resembles the parent. Wherefore of an modes of getting wealth this is the most unnatural.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

[1] http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.1.one.html


How does "not to increase at interest" rule out investing in trade ?


You can find plenty of stuff that those three groups agree on that would horrify modern people. It's a really poor argument.


Alternatively, it's exactly because modern people would be horrified at what those three groups agree on that it is an excellent argument.


Cool! Now we have two equally credible arguments from antiquity.

Perhaps it's time to consider forming some fundamental principles and reasoning from them instead?


That would be good, except that if you told anyone about it, they'd probably be horrified.


I mean, I already believe in a lot of basic principles that would horrify a lot of people - free speech, freedom of religion, I don't care at all what someone's sexual orientation is, and so on.

So I don't see where this should stop us from trying to form principles as an alternative to arguing that something must be or must not be true because of what someone wrote down millennia ago.


The quotation is factual and avoids making an argument. I'm not sure what you're trying to refute.


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